The Daily Loper – March 19, 2007
Posted by Lopy in The Daily Loper on Mar 19, 2007
The RIAA: Today’s Worst Company in the Worrrrrlllllddd!! Edition
Todays links of interest:
- 22 TV Opening-Credit Sequences That Fit Their Shows Perfectly
Some you’d expect ("The Sopranos" & "The Simpsons"), and some you wouldn’t. But we’d add "Lost," for openers. - New York artists sue NBC over "Heroes" concept
Right. Tell you what: if what’s supposed to happen to Isaac ends up happening to these people, then their concept was obviously stolen and they should win their lawsuit. - RIAA Wins Worst Company In America 2007
Beating out Halliburton no less. - Magazine publishers see future, but no profit, in shift to Internet
Possibly because they’re still defining the business model? - The Shape of Cinema, Transformed at the Click of a Mouse
And now, archiving aided by the digital transformation. As logn as the hard drives don’t crash and the storage medium doesn’t degrade, we’re totally good. - Television: Pilot error
Is pilot season just another one of those arcane concepts that the motion picture industry can’t seem to shake? Or does it serve a greater (if incomprehensible) purpose? - Little Films on Little Screens (but Both Seem Set to Grow)
Downloadable video might not signal the rise of independent film, but it will allow these movies to be seen by a wider audience. - Webcasters and Rising Royalty Fees: Paying the Price for Innovation?
Another look at the topic du jour. - Google ‘admits to phone project’
Gee, phone. - The Traneumentary
Because John Coltrane is forever.
See, suing is America’s national pastime. You’re nobody in this town until you’ve been sued. This means that Heroes is somebody.
Yeah, sigh.
HEROES HAD TO STEAL THESE ARTISTS WORK IN ORDER TO BE SOMEBODY. MOST NEW YORKERS KNEW THAT TIM KRING WAS NOT THE CREATOR OF THE ARTIST THAT CAN PAINT THE FUTURE. THAT STORY HAS ALREADY BEEN TOLD IN THE NY DAILYNEWS AUGUST 5, 2004 AND THE JEWISH FORWARD NEWSPAPER TITLED: WEIRD PREMONITION AUGUST 6,2004. GOOGLE THE EELE TWINS, ENJAI EELE OR AMNAU EELE TO READ BOTH ARTICLES. TIM KRING HAS SAID IN SEVERAL INTERVIEWS THAT HE CAME UP WITH THE IDEA OF THE ARTIST AND HEROES IN OCT-NOV 2005. NBC HAS A SERIOUS PROBLEM ON IT’S HANDS.
Er, stop yelling. It’s not like superpowers are a new thing.
What’s next? Is Warner Bros. going to sue because Nathan Petrelli can fly? Because of the invisible man?
Part of the fun of Heroes is watching the influences.
Oh dear, Yelling Man, I doubt that NBC has a serious problems on its hands. One, these kind of lawsuits are filed, almost automatically with every new hit show/movie because…Two, you cannot copyright ideas. It is not abnormal for an artist to read a story in the newspaper and spin it his or her way. As a veteran of these copyright lawsuits, I don’t feel a need to get worked up about them. Art Buchwald aside, there are too many people crying wolf.
Sorry. No problem for NBC unless it can be proven that protected material was actually stolen.
Kassis,
Who said anything about copyrighting ideas ?
Have you read “The NYC Artists sue NBC lawsuit” on line before you made this stupid statement, Veteran ?
The Artists lawsuit is based on copyright infringement of the Artists copyrighted work. Now where does the word” idea” fit into this fact ?
You’re not a” veteran” of anything except speaking before you think and speaking without knowing the facts. Are you defending NBC because you work for them ? Get the facts before you “YELL” about things you have no knowledge of. I read the lawsuit, it’s 19 pages long and i agree with the poster “Never Mind” , NBC has a major issue on it’s hands with this lawsuit.
Sorry for the mis-spelling of the name Kassia,
I would advise all posters to go on line and read the lawsuit and exhibits filed by these Artists before you take the advice of “VETERANS” like Kassia.
Bob
Hey Bob:
Take a look at the thread you’re responding to. The only one who was yelling was the original commenter “never mind”.
I’ll let Kassia respond to the rest of comment, but I can assure you that no one here works for NBC. The fact is that Kassia has seen quite a bit of this type of litigation over the years, so I can assure you she does speak from experience.
Since you seem to know so much about this issues I’d be interested in hearing more about your background.
My background is law enforcement and I know that “never Mind” is the yeller, but Kassia made the comment about never mind yelling because of the big caps. ( Big caps don’t bother me if the person has something important to say and is telling the truth).
It doesn’t matter how many cases Kassia have seen like this, what matters is the facts in this case and kassia should not comment on things that she has no knowledge or facts of.
Looking in a paper and spinning the idea of someone else’s copyrighted work is stealing and against the law , which is what Tim Kring and NBC did.
From what i read and viewed in this lawsuit the similarities between the two works are profound and it boggles the mind on how Tim Kring and NBC thought they were going to get away with this.
Read the lawsuit, see the exhibits and these Artists film and i think you will see my point.
I’m not sure, exactly, what your point is. The idea in question is an artist who paints the future (not, I suspect, that unusual of an idea). The lawsuit suggests that two writers from another show (with a connection to Tim Kring) viewed the plaintiffs’ work, picked up “copies”, and then took the story to their boss. Now, sure, it’s possible, but given the fact that these type of lawsuits are filed as a matter of course — you have a hit show, movie, even album, you get a lawsuit — one tends to be very jaded. Very few of these cases get settled in favor of the plaintiff (Art Buchwald being a major exception) because, frankly, there are a lot of protections in place because litigation, fully justified or baseless, if very expensive for all the parties involved.
When it comes to determining if the story was based on copyrighted work — either the art or the short story or whatever — there are tests used to determine the validity of the claim. I’m not even sure that an artist who paints the future of cataclysmic destruction of major NYC buildings would qualify. This is stuff that is part of the nation’s psyche. If, as Yelling Man suggested, there was major news coverage of future-painting twins, I’ll bet there was more than one writer who thought that was a cool idea for a story (where did the plaintiffs get their idea, by the way?). The question of appropriating copyrighted materials comes if the story or story elements are lifted wholesale. That’s for the courts to decide based on the evidence.
The fact that these type of lawsuits are filed as a matter of course with every hit movie, television show, songs, and even books diminishes the impact of legitimate suits.
As for NBC having a big problem on their hands? What’s the worst case scenario? Say that the idea was stolen — what happens? The artist will be compensated for their character, they may even get an ongoing share in the proceeds of the show. Or their character might be written out of the story entirely. Possibly a judge could rule that the show be pulled off the air, but NBC would appeal and a compromise would be reached.
No, I don’t work for NBC. Never have. I do know that 19 pages isn’t an especially long filing. I am curious to know your interest in this case and/or your expertise in this matter. Just cause I know I’m not stupid — and, well, I suspect I’ve done more work on these type of suits than you have. I could be wrong, sure, but something tells me I’m not.
So, two things:
1) Yes, this is exactly where NBC would choose to defend a lawsuit: the comments section of Medialoper. You’ve caught us out: I’m going to have to tell Mr. Zucker that we need a different strategy.
2) As it turns out, Yelling Man may actually be Yelling Woman. I just now googled “Eele Twins,” and not only were we #2 (whoo-hoo!), nearly every entry had ALL CAPS as the excerpt. Apparently someone named Joanne Vara left at least a couple of those.
Unless, of course, she only left her comments in a single place and somebody stole her intellectual property by commenting with essentially the same words in other places.
3) Apparently, one of those noted that Enjai and Amnau Eele were known as “The Twins.” Uh-oh, I wonder what the Major League Baseball team in Minneapolis thinks about that?!?
4) That New York Daily news story? Written by their (now fired) Gossip writer, Lloyd Grove.
Don’t get me started on Battlestar Galactica and this so-called “Kamala extract”. The Sci Fi channel will be hearing from my attorneys.
Jim,
I googled Joann Vara and she works in the film & tv industry, her Husband is a cop.
she saw these Artists in person at Hunter College in 2005. i suggest everyone on this site should read her comments and google her name.
I would believe her comments before i’d believe Kassia or Jim.
Is it possible for one to google your name Kassia so that everyone reading this site can have a full understanding of your expertise on these type of cases ?
Joann Vara put her credentials and who she is on the table, can you do the same Kassia ?
What does it matter Jim if Lloyd Grove was fired ? He’s now at Vanity Fair Magazine according to Joann’s comments and his article about the artists that can paint the future ran in the ny dailynews a year before Tim Kring claims he came up with the idea for NBC. It seems the artists didn’t come up with the idea that Tim Kring “lifted”, the artists are the idea.
As for Joann being the yeller, why would she have to hide behind the yeller when her work resume is on line for all to see ? I read all of her comments and she has integrity, something that’s lacking in Jim and Kassia’s comments. In one of her comments she said using big caps is not yelling for her, it means freedom to her and that is her right.
It is pointless to discuss this case with people that have not read the lawsuit or the exhibits, if Kassia had she/he would understand why NBC has a major problem. This lawsuit is a lot more than money and Heroes being pulled off the air.( from what i read in the lawsuit the show being pulled off the air is a very strong possibility and the least of NBC’s problems with this case ).
If Kassia thinks an artist that can paint the future is not that unusual, then do as Joann asked in her comments. Name the actor or real life person that is known and documented for playing this role in film, tv, book( fiction or non-fiction), comic book or real life in the last 100 years ? Give us one name Kassia, i’m only interested in solid facts.
The courts and law enforcement deal in facts and from what i’ve read in this lawsuit the facts are there.
If you’ve worked on these types of cases as you claim Kassia then you would know to save your opinions until you know all the facts. i don’t expect you to get the point Kassia, common sense is required and it seems that you’re lacking in that department.
My question to you Kassia, “what is your interest in this case, if you don’t work for or hope to work for NBC ?”
Bob:
First of all, if you look at the comments above, Joann Vara never identified herself. If that was her leaving the initial comment she chose to be anonymous. So much for credibility.
Second, if any of us here at Medialoper had an interest in this case and were trying to influence the public in any way, don’t you think we would have done a full article on the subject, instead of the small snippet that appeared in the Daily Loper above?
On the contrary, it seems like there’s some sort of campaign under way against Heros and NBC. A blog search this morning turned up comments similar to yours on other sites yesterday. Coincidence? Or is this some sort of orchestrated astroturfing?
And finally, since you seem to be an expert on this case, I’d like to invite you to post a more detailed assessment of that 19 page legal brief you keep referring to. Go on, tell us what’s really happening here. Be as specific as possible, and provide us with your detailed assessment of what the results of this case will be – both for NBC and anyone involved in the creation of Heroes.
Come on Bob, you can do it. Be a Medialoper!
And while you’re at it Bob, you’ll need to leave your last name so we can verify your credentials. Kassia, Jim, and I are all easily identifiable. You’re more than welcome to Google any of us – or hell, you could actually use your web browser and spend some time reading this site. It would be nice if we could Google you as well.
You say you’re in law enforcement? What a coincidence, some semi-anonymous commenter named Bob claims that Joann Vara’s husband is in law enforcement too. Small world, I guess.
I’m going to be honest, Bob, we’re probably having more fun with this than you are. Nobody here has a stake in this game, but I’m starting to suspect that you do. So let’s put it out there.
I’m totally googleable. Granted, you’re going to find some stuff I wrote way back when the Internet was considered a toy, but I’m not ashamed of anything I’ve done. Sure, I probably would have written cleaner copy, but, hey, you live you learn. I’m fairly certain that anything you find with my name on it was written by me. Unless I have an evil twin or unknown enemy. I am not anonymous.
You, however, are not googleable. I don’t have any faith in your analysis of this suit because I have no way of determining your credentials. You, as far as I can tell, are some guy who has an inordinate interest in this case and a lot of free time to comment on blogs about it.
Also, you seem to be able to recognize the real (???) name of an anonymous poster to this site. I do, by the way, apologize for my assumption on gender. Most “yellers” are male. Probably for the same reason that men honk horns for no good reason at all. The justification that using all caps is an expression of freedom is bogus. Joanne, if that is her real name and not something someone has appropriated, is being out and out rude. People tend to discount rudeness online. Joanne is undermining her message. I didn’t take her seriously, but I was bored enough to respond. Ditto, I suspect, for Jim. If you know Joanne, you might want to give her some advice: unlock the caps key. It’s stupid.
Joanne (see above) is apparently a set designer or something. Okay, I can see why you’d take her far more seriously than me. Especially if she’s just some random person making comments on a bunch of blogs. It’s not like I’ve been writing on this topic for years. I won’t repeat the fact that I have well over a decade of experience in the motion picture business. Clearly my credentials are nothing compared to Joanne’s. I sure hope she had as much fun as I did working overtime to copy and collate and analyze and research these issues. Nothing like a Friday night spent preparing countless settlement scenarios to bolster girl’s social life.
Where was I? Oh. Right. To date, you have not offered anything close to germane analysis of why NBC is supposedly in big trouble. In fact, you have yet to acknowledge the possibility that the party filing a complaint will, naturally, skew the “facts” (malleable things, facts) to support their position. Have you read NBC’s response? Have you applied your keen analytical skills to that response? If so, did you notice that NBC’s position was equally strong? By the way, these questions presuppose that NBC has already filed their response. This may not yet be the case and this is me guessing about the future. Writing about the future. Wow. What an original concept. I think CBS may want to get in the act as well — seems that some of this was ripped off from “Early Edition”.
Basically, I have nothing to prove to you. You have yet to show me that you have a clear understanding of the issues and process. I’m still going with my guess that you have a vested interest in this case. If not, then, well, wow. You sure are passionate about a topic that is, at best, half-known.
PS — thanks for dragging Jim into the debate. He was feeling left out.
I have a few questions:
Kassia and Jim made the claim that the yeller might be Joann Vara. Why would
Joann hide behind the yeller when she asked for her name to be googled and she stated her credentials ? I googled Joann and her telephone number, resume etc.. is on line for all to see.So how does she not have credibility Jim ?
What benefit would it serve for this site to do a full story on this case if only four people read this site ? I’ve only seen comments from myself, Kassia, Jim & Kirk.
How can this site do a full story on a case that it has no details or knowledge of ? No one on this site other than myself has read the case or exhibits, and if Kassia is who she/he says she/he is then why haven’t you read the case ? You claim Kassia that you worked overtime for free researching this case, why do that if this site is not going to do a full story or this case bores you? This case bores you because you don’t know anything about it .
Why wouldn’t the comments on all the sites read the same, we’re all talking about the same case right ? I see only opinions, not a campaign against NBC. A campaign is not needed because this case will be judged by a judge and jury, not NBC, the Artists or anyone else and from what i read in the lawsuit a campaigne is not needed because the facts of theft and substantial similarities are all there.
You say i can google you, what’s your last name Kassia, jim and Kirk ? Joann didn’t have a problem giving her full name for all to google. This case is in the courts and if your fantasy about cops being involved is true , then wouldn’t all law enforcement look at this case because of the contents of the case ?
( which if the veteran Kassia had read the case you would know why law enforcement may be interested in this case ).
I could care less about the fun you’re having or how jaded you are, you’re just words on a site. I have the same amount of time that you do Kassia to blog in any comments that i choose, Why are you spending time on this site about this case ?
I know no one in law enforcement that would allow anyone to google their name especially three jackass morons that are on a third rate website that no one seems to read.
Joann’s telephone number is on the web if you google her name, call her and tell her, not me how rude you think she is for using big caps.In spite of her big caps i got her message and i was informed about two artists that i knew nothing about. I learned something from reading her comments and all i’ve learned from reading this site is a bunch of foolish info that has no value.
You’re right Kassia your credentials that no one but you know about is not on the level of Joann and neither is your comments. NBC’s response is the same as Fox’s response in the DodgeBall lawsuit and the Judge in that case has ruled that the lawsuit against Fox will not be dismissed. To respond in any other way would have been an admission of guilt on NBC’s part.
You have nothing to prove to me and i have nothing to prove to you, the proof is left to NBC that they didn’t steal these Artists materials to the judge and jury in this case. I have the same vested interest that you have in this case Kassia and i plan to move from this site to a site where i can find out more about these Artists, afterall it”s not everyday that one gets to read about real living Artists that use Art to save lives. Any sane and intelligent person would understand this fact. To borrow from Kassia , I’m Moving on because this site and the comments on it really bores me.
Wow Bob. You never cease to amaze me.
Joann Vara never left her name on this site. So she never identified herself to us. Although it’s pretty clear that the comments in ALL CAPS above were left by the same person who has hit at least two dozen other blogs with similar comments on this same issue, occasionally identifying herself as JOANN VARA SET DESIGNER as she did here:
http://blog.nbc.com/heroes/2006/09/the_most_difficult_aspects_of.php
By the way Bob, I’m sure that you’re aware that set designers typically don’t litigate intellectual property claims like the one in question? That’s usually left up to lawyers and people with experience in contractual issues and business affairs. But that’s neither here nor there, so I won’t bring it up.
As a side note, I have to say that one possible scenario is that someone is leaving comments like these around the internet hoping to make JOANN VARA look bad. So I’m not jumping to any conclusions that it was actually JOANN who left the original comment. There’s no way of knowing.
As for you Bob, you seem like you might be a JOANN VARA stalker. You’ve tracked her down on Google, found her phone number and other personal information, and you can’t stop talking about her. Just what are you up to Bob?
As for Googling any of us, well, now that I suspect you may be a stalker I’m not so sure I want to pass this information along to you, but here goes. This website has other pages. Many, many, other pages. It’s not all just the Daily Loper for March 19, 2007. You might try actually looking at some of those other pages if you’re really so curious about who we are.
Just don’t stalk us, ok? You’ll regret it.
And with this final comment I am officially closing this post for future comments. No good can come from extending this ridiculous thread.